Hey guys, Mirandah, a top player from Kong Sever 3 just got her 2nd evolved fire sylph, Aries to red (mythic) quality. I don't know how much he/she spent on…
Pennants Analysis | Red Pennants (Mythic) in Wartune
Hi Everyone! In this blog post I focus on Pennants in Wartune, more specifically on red pennants (a.k.a. Mythic) and share all info about them together with my analysis and recommendations.
We are going to start by looking at all the red pennants in 2 parts: stats and bonuses for 2 set. At the bottom of this post I also add the picture of all the pennants for reference.
Part 1: Stats
Alright, let’s jump into their stats:
| Mythic Pennants | ATK | PDEF | MDEF | HP | Block | Penetration |
| Eagle Pennant | 180,600 | 180,600 | 180,600 | 30,100 | ||
| Bear Pennant | 180,600 | 180,600 | 30,100 | 30,100 | ||
| Rat Pennant | 180,600 | 1,083,600 | 30,100 | 30,100 | ||
| Wolf Pennant | 180,600 | 180,600 | 1,083,600 | 30,100 | ||
| Tiger Pennant | 180,600 | 180,600 | 180,600 | 1,083,600 | ||
| Deer Pennant | 180,600 | 1,083,600 | 30,100 | 30,100 |
Looking at “dry” stats is fine, but I did a modified calculation trying to simplify everything into one simple chart.
On the chart below all the attack related stats are combined (red) and, also, the defensive ones are combined (blue) and it is sorted from the highest attack (as i value attack more).
So we can see that the top 4 pennants are the best for attack with Eagle and Tiger also having high scores for defensive stats. And if you choose Deer or Wolf pennants then you will get practically no attack at all, but you will get defensive stats.
Note: for those Wartune players wondering about the specifics of this modified calculation: I have given full weight to ATK, to where both PDEF and MDEF are present (otherwise half), only 25% of weight to HP compared to defense and 5% to the relevant stat for block and penetration. This is not to say that all this is 100% accurate, but it is sufficient to get a good idea.
Part 2: Bonuses
Now let’s look at the bonuses they give:
- Mythic Pennants // Bonus for 2 Set
- Eagle Pennant: 20% chance to restore 5% HP each turn (= 1% every turn).
- Bear Pennant: Damage dealt increased by 5%.
- Rat Pennant: Block rate increased by 5%.
- Wolf Pennant: Critical hit damage increased by 5%.
- Tiger Pennant: Crit rate increased by 5%.
- Deer Pennant: Decreases damage received by 5%.
Attack Pennants
Bear, Wolf and Tiger are damage related pennants. Among these I believe, in terms of bonuses:
Bear > Wolf > Tiger
Because guaranteed damage increase also increases crit damage while the opposite is not true.
And damage increase is always more welcome than an increased chance to do a critical attack.
Defensive Pennants
Eagle, Rat and Deer are survival related pennants. Among these I believe, in terms of bonuses:
Deer > Rat > Eagle
Because Deer pennant guarantees damage reduction every turn, which is more than the guaranteed “damage reduction” a.k.a. heal by Eagle pennant.
And Rat will not give you benefit every turn but when it does activate the damage reduction is, I believe, more significant than the Eagle’s heal.
However, Wartune players who prefer guaranteed benefits may prefer Eagle to Rat pennant, but I still think Deer would be a better choice.
Part 3: Making a Choice
I will explain the choice logic for myself and, based on all the information provided, you can make a decision for your character.
Firstly, I am more attack-oriented player, so I always choose ATK over DEF if there is a choice. That said, I also try to calculate the advantage of each so if the defensive advantage is a lot more I would pick that over the attack.
In these situations I also value the bonus more than the stats, however, I do not ignore the stats.
So with that in mind I like most of all the Bear pennant due to a guaranteed damage increase. It is also further confirmed by solid attack and some defensive stats. That leaves me with 2 choices.
The other 2 attack options are Wolf or Tiger pennants. One increases the Crit damage while the other “maybe” increases amount of Crits. When unsure which to choose the stats give a helping hand. While both have solid defensive stats the Wolf lacks completely in offensive stats while Tiger is also solid in that. So between the 2 the preference goes to the Tiger pennant.
For the last option I pick the Deer pennant as it gives a guaranteed damage reduction although it’s a bit upsetting that it is weaker in stats. The close alternative choice would be the Rat pennant which does not always trigger but it further boosts offensive with the ATK stat. At this moment I went for the Deer mainly because I got an orange Deer from a recent event while my other pennants are all purple.
Other Considerations / References
There is a visual bug in Wartune where it shows pennants as having less stats than they actually have in the Ascension upgrade window (picture below). So an orange / yellow pennant is shown as having 3 attributes while in reality it has 4 (picture above).
As I don’t have a Red pennant I cannot confirm at this moment if they indeed have 4 attributes or perhaps a 5th one as well. It seems to me that they do not though so I think this article will be valid. However, if there is any feedback or new info please post it in the comments below so all Wartune players can benefit from maximum knowledge on pennants in Wartune.
Update: Poll
I created a poll where everyone can vote which penannts they like the most:
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All of my guildmates that have red pennats confirmed that red pennats have 4 stats,not 5.So you are right.
Thanks
Hi, good article, but for now is impossible found pennant ascension stone..
Hi, thanks. Yes, ascensions stones are very hard to come by, but we did have recently a nice event where we got purple and orange pennants, so I hope you did not miss that.
– COSMOS
So I think there is one relevant thing missing from the article. Its obviously very hard to get concrete opinions on this but at which value raw stats will start to lose to bonuses.
The dmg calculation as far as I understand(please correct me if I`m wrong) is attack – defense (Something something bout if def > attack). In that sense raw stats will be more beneficial imo because if you are very close to defense ratings of the opponent in your attack you will gain way more from raw attack than attack buffs.
The next part is a lot of guessing, I would take all of it with grain of salt as I havent planned this post in any way so there are bound to be mistakes.
So if we assume 4 stats share the 5% bonus, obviously some stats better than others so I would value attacks part of that 5% to be 2% for the sake of the argument(instead of average 1.25%). The 180,600 raw attack from pennant but as you will be using 2 will be 361,200 raw attack. I will make an assumption for using DC as I am just so much more familiar with it as a young player compared to other forms and I feel its dmg numbers are relatively balanced. Your DC average hit is ~300%, basic attack are less but the bigger ones are more so 300% feels reasonable.
Now if we have 300% attack – 100% defense, we get result of 200% attack value as the dmg which goes trough, assuming both numbers are the same, which seems to be the case looking at my own stats more or less. If anything attack seems to be higher than defenses. So we get to make an assumption, each raw stat in attack is worth 2 dmg, bumping that 361200 to 722,400 value.
Now I assumed 2& of the 5% dmg gain is for attack stat, its simplifying take on a relatively complex argument as I dont know the stat weights of say penetration or how you would account defenses. 722,400/2*100 = 36,120,000. This number is what your attack number should be for you to want to go for bonuses over raw stats with mythic pennants, assuming my assumptions made are somewhat reasonable.
Now I honestly have no idea if that kind of numbers exist or not. I logged on my old character from like 2 years ago, the top player there has 7m attack. Seeing how these numbers are on 2 different worlds, I`d say raw stats are the obvious choice for attack least and completely ignoring the “right” set bonuses.
Now for end I`ll do quick calculation of assuming full 5% of the set bonus is attack. 722,400/5 *100 = 14,448,000. I`d like somebody to check my thinking cause if these numbers are any guideline raw stats are simply just massively stronger choice. And as such my choices would be: bear, tiger and rat sets.
But feel free to give feedback in case I made some serious oopsies somewhere – Main point was to bring up in discussion how raw stats might be the obvious way to go for as we get so much of them compared to amount of bonuses.
Ps. Apologies for a long post.
So as I was doing other things, I thought of what I said and I realized I made an oopsie. While it was necessary to questimate the actual dmg dealt due how dmg calculation works in this game, I forgot to reduce the dmg numbers back to 100% value. In short the numbers I got in the end should be divided by 2 for “real” values. Even so the attack value alone outclasses the bonus and you get all those other things with it, imo no contention.
Now because I got myself to write again, I`ll add few more points to the discussion. So why use the flat 5% dmg increase? Its simply easiest to play with and also most significant dmg increase out of the possible bonuses.
Crit rate, I feel I crit bout 50%-60% of the time. So the increase of dmg 5% more crit would give me is, using the 50% value as thats where it would be greater relatively. I use 230% as crit dmg I explain in next paragraph. 0.5(chance) * 1(non crit dmg) + 0.5(chance) * 2.3(crit dmg) = 1.65 and 0.45 * 1 + 0.55 * 2.3 = 1.715 so (1.715 – 1.65) / 1.65 * 100% = 3.9% in dmg increase on average.
How would crit dmg rank then? The less bonuses you get for crit dmg, the more value you get out of this bonus but sunlight talisman set (30% w/o potency), determination 50% at lvl 10(I know it can go bit higher) and the basic value of crit being 50% extra dmg. We get to 230% dmg for crit, add 5% crit dmg from bonus. 0.5 * 1 + 0.5 * 2.3 = 1.65 and 0.5 * 1 + 0.5 * 2.35 = 1.675 so (1.675 – 1.65 ) / 1.65 * 100% = 1.5% dmg increase on average.
To point out one thing, the less of you have crit or crit dmg multiplier, the stronger increases to them are. And naturally the more you have it, the less you will relatively gain from increasing it.
So I will stick with my conclusion, raw stats are way better choice for mythic pennants. Now the interesting question would be non mythic pennants and how those pair with bonuses. I did quick calculations for blues as I currently run with rubbish like that and breaking point would be ~1.2m attack stat for the 2% dmg increase one. As in take 2 bears even if they gave no attack(I dont know as I got no blue bear) as blue over something that gives attack stats.
Hi, running around with RL issues but wanted to drop a quick reply for some points:
– 1 general comment: we don’t actually know the formulas as they never released them. And a lot of players think there could also be bugs if you could actually go check their coding.
– You have a good point that one should not automatically take the percentages and if one’s actual hard stats are low then increasing those may be better in one’s specific case.
– However, all pennants give stats, so it’s not like a player gets one thing and not another thing. The player always gets more, it’s just a question of what the player prefers to “specialize” in according to the strategy they play (e.g. as I said I prefer attack priority).
– Regarding the Crit rate I also had a discussion with one of my server mates. It comes back to not knowing the actual formula, but if you were at your maximum then adding more rate chance actually gives nothing. There was an old rule of thumb that one should have 10% Crit compared to Attack. I don’t think we ever got a better “guideline” than that. And max Crit is expected to be 80% (again no proof), so one should not expect to be able to Crit 100% of the time.
Sorry did not reply to all your points, just wanted to add some more discussion,
– COSMOS
So few things I`d like to add after Cosmos reply.
-There is generally 2 ways dmg calculations work regarding armor in games. 1 is they have % reduction on dmg based on your armor(LoL for example), I dont see how they`d code it here unless it was related to total BR. Or something along lines of attack – defense, its prolly more complicated than that but its obviously something of that type of a calculation. So I think its pretty safe to say we are dealing with latter, it prolly is more complicated than just basic attack – defense but not by much and as such I`d say raw attack is more valuable than it would be if the “armor calculation” was done differently.
-My point is, if my numbers are remotely accurate, then stats just outweight bonuses for everybody with mythic pennants.
-Same can be said bout bonuses, you will “have to” make decision based on what you want to focus on and it looks like stats are simply more valuable in that.
-My point bout crit was providing math to show its “value”. For example you get more value of 5% crit if your crit is 50% than say 70%. You dont have to go over cap to get less value out of it. Well I should say your relative gain is less, you get same constant gain from each crit you add. Crit dmg bonus is simply just worst dmg bonus you can have out of the options we got and as such I wouldnt put much value on it.
But yea, lot of this is guessing when we dont know exact formulas but I feel we can make somewhat educated guesses on whats better however.
The lower tier pennants bonuses are more valuable as the for example, attack multiplies from green to blue by ~4 while bonus only doubles.
All in all I find this pretty interesting discussion as I personally went in to the math with assumption of bonuses being better, which imo clearly is not the case.